Hi there! Sorry to bother you out of nowhere. I was just wondering about a preference of yours. I know that you said that you were playing primarily from a certain run of comics, and hadn't had the chance to get through the monolith that is all of 616. If contradictions come up regarding your portrayal and canon, would you like to be told about them? Roleplay is here for people to have fun, and I would never want to squash your enjoyment, so I figured it would be best to ask first about whether or not it's welcome.
So I guess my big question comes from how much you draw from MCU to fill in the blanks, when MCU Clint would be largely unrecognizable to 616 characters. Your opening post went full shield agent, but I don't think that 616 Clint was ever part of the organization beyond the government funding the Avengers received from time to time. Coulson gets a special shoutout, but he's a 616 invention only existed in comic form for less than a decade, and I don't think he's ever been in the same comic as Clint. And then later, reading through his threads with others, you make a mention that his relationship with Natasha is largely platonic, but didn't they hook up before he was married? It seems like a small thing, but it might be something if he knows things she doesn't.
I guess my question is more like... Why not MCU if that's the Clint that makes you comfortable? Is there a particular appeal of the 616 characterization that speaks to you? I'm genuinely curious.
• how much you draw from MCU - some of it's def. accidental, since I'm more familiar with the MCU, but the times I do it deliberately are about CR. It may be trying to have my cake and eat it too, but basically, there are so many great MCU characters in the game, with cool accompanying connections to Clint, I'm sometimes trying to preserve some of their MCU connection for the sake of diving right into threading with them.
• opening post went full shield agent, but I don't think that 616 Clint was ever part of the organization beyond the government funding the Avengers received from time to time. - I'm probably confusing Clint's New Avengers run with S.H.I.E.L.D. since Maria Hill was at the fore of his and Black Widow's brainwashing. Still, Clint's headed enough organizations, I imagine borrowing some protocols would happen, even if his learning of them was brief.
• Coulson gets a special shoutout - yeah, that was entirely for CR: catching Jemma Simmons's attention.
• his relationship with Natasha is largely platonic, but didn't they hook up before he was married? - yes indeed! That was why I said "largely" but I guess it was misleading. That also was kinda a CR thing: Nat!player and I agree that we appreciate and are interested in the dynamic of a close het male-female relationship that is NOT based on sex/romance (—and doesn't require either to be taken elsewhere, as in the MCU). So, even though Nat and Clint were initially an item, the lion's part of their relationship since has been as bros and that's how they're interested in continuing.
• Why not MCU if that's the Clint that makes you comfortable? Is there a particular appeal of the 616 characterization that speaks to you? - good question…! I guess by default I'm gonna know more about MCU Clint than any other, but he doesn't make me more comfortable—he makes me actively uncomfortable, or at least turned off. I feel making him be taken elsewhere to ensure he and Nat are just platonic was a lazy choice; Laura Barton deserved better than just to be set dressing; it felt very out of sync when the rest is about found family; and some things were a good idea but came off as being racist/sexist. e.g. I appreciate what they were probably going for in his relationship with Wanda Maximoff, but it really came off wrong to me, and then his Ronin phase required taking out his feelings on non-white people in other countries… just problems, and this sense of flattening out. (For me, anyway.) However, I'm not really drawn to 616! Barton at large; like I said, I find 616! kinda loose and sprawling. Just the Fraction/Aja one, which I find tight and awesome. So I'm pretty much treating that one as my lodestar, and trying to stick with 616! as its foundation. But if some supplementary MCU sneaks in… Well, one of my castmates, who's read it all, is generously helping me with my blindspots. So far they've been of the mind that that's okay.
First off, thanks for taking all this so well. I know it can be stressful to have someone come after your characterization like this. I think you've answered a lot of what I was apprehensive about.
It took me some time to think through your answer to the "why not MCU" bit. My gut reaction was something like "if she's not comfortable with Ronin, then why not Civil War as a canonpoint?" because 616 Ronin was openly bloodier and killed a lot more people where canon could see it. But if you're more upset about who he's killing than how much killing is happening, I could see how the weirdly tone-deaf portrayal from Endgame could leave a bad taste in your mouth.
So overall, thanks for breaking down where you're coming from! You're taking on something that's challenging and doing a lot to make sure you're getting your due diligence in order. I was worried about approaching you, but you seem pretty chill overall. Good luck with where you take him in the future!
PS- If you want to get up on a soapbox and scream about justice for Laura Barton with me though, check out the "Ultimates" run sometime. People mostly know 1610 as the universe that gave us Miles Morales, but it's also where Clint was a moody meathead with little personality beyond "loves his family". MCU Clint is largely based on that universe, and Laura existed there basically to die dramatically when Natasha betrayed everyone (which then motivated Clint to kill Nat because manpain). Comics are amazing but also infuriating.
Thank you so much!! This legit means a lot to me. <3333
If we're ever threading together, and I do something wildly out of sync with 616 or is otherwise irksome, in any way, PLEASE feel free to tell me! I'm always happy to edit. I think there's always more than one right/interesting way to do anything!
UGGGGGH FRIDGING…! /accept invitation and joins you on soapbox/
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2019-08-15 07:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-16 02:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-16 04:36 am (UTC)So I guess my big question comes from how much you draw from MCU to fill in the blanks, when MCU Clint would be largely unrecognizable to 616 characters. Your opening post went full shield agent, but I don't think that 616 Clint was ever part of the organization beyond the government funding the Avengers received from time to time. Coulson gets a special shoutout, but he's a 616 invention only existed in comic form for less than a decade, and I don't think he's ever been in the same comic as Clint. And then later, reading through his threads with others, you make a mention that his relationship with Natasha is largely platonic, but didn't they hook up before he was married? It seems like a small thing, but it might be something if he knows things she doesn't.
I guess my question is more like... Why not MCU if that's the Clint that makes you comfortable? Is there a particular appeal of the 616 characterization that speaks to you? I'm genuinely curious.
Thanks for being so cool about this!
no subject
Date: 2019-08-16 11:33 am (UTC)• how much you draw from MCU - some of it's def. accidental, since I'm more familiar with the MCU, but the times I do it deliberately are about CR. It may be trying to have my cake and eat it too, but basically, there are so many great MCU characters in the game, with cool accompanying connections to Clint, I'm sometimes trying to preserve some of their MCU connection for the sake of diving right into threading with them.
• opening post went full shield agent, but I don't think that 616 Clint was ever part of the organization beyond the government funding the Avengers received from time to time. - I'm probably confusing Clint's New Avengers run with S.H.I.E.L.D. since Maria Hill was at the fore of his and Black Widow's brainwashing. Still, Clint's headed enough organizations, I imagine borrowing some protocols would happen, even if his learning of them was brief.
• Coulson gets a special shoutout - yeah, that was entirely for CR: catching Jemma Simmons's attention.
• his relationship with Natasha is largely platonic, but didn't they hook up before he was married? - yes indeed! That was why I said "largely" but I guess it was misleading. That also was kinda a CR thing: Nat!player and I agree that we appreciate and are interested in the dynamic of a close het male-female relationship that is NOT based on sex/romance (—and doesn't require either to be taken elsewhere, as in the MCU). So, even though Nat and Clint were initially an item, the lion's part of their relationship since has been as bros and that's how they're interested in continuing.
• Why not MCU if that's the Clint that makes you comfortable? Is there a particular appeal of the 616 characterization that speaks to you? - good question…! I guess by default I'm gonna know more about MCU Clint than any other, but he doesn't make me more comfortable—he makes me actively uncomfortable, or at least turned off. I feel making him be taken elsewhere to ensure he and Nat are just platonic was a lazy choice; Laura Barton deserved better than just to be set dressing; it felt very out of sync when the rest is about found family; and some things were a good idea but came off as being racist/sexist. e.g. I appreciate what they were probably going for in his relationship with Wanda Maximoff, but it really came off wrong to me, and then his Ronin phase required taking out his feelings on non-white people in other countries… just problems, and this sense of flattening out. (For me, anyway.) However, I'm not really drawn to 616! Barton at large; like I said, I find 616! kinda loose and sprawling. Just the Fraction/Aja one, which I find tight and awesome. So I'm pretty much treating that one as my lodestar, and trying to stick with 616! as its foundation. But if some supplementary MCU sneaks in… Well, one of my castmates, who's read it all, is generously helping me with my blindspots. So far they've been of the mind that that's okay.
Any of that make sense?
no subject
Date: 2019-08-18 04:13 pm (UTC)It took me some time to think through your answer to the "why not MCU" bit. My gut reaction was something like "if she's not comfortable with Ronin, then why not Civil War as a canonpoint?" because 616 Ronin was openly bloodier and killed a lot more people where canon could see it. But if you're more upset about who he's killing than how much killing is happening, I could see how the weirdly tone-deaf portrayal from Endgame could leave a bad taste in your mouth.
So overall, thanks for breaking down where you're coming from! You're taking on something that's challenging and doing a lot to make sure you're getting your due diligence in order. I was worried about approaching you, but you seem pretty chill overall. Good luck with where you take him in the future!
PS- If you want to get up on a soapbox and scream about justice for Laura Barton with me though, check out the "Ultimates" run sometime. People mostly know 1610 as the universe that gave us Miles Morales, but it's also where Clint was a moody meathead with little personality beyond "loves his family". MCU Clint is largely based on that universe, and Laura existed there basically to die dramatically when Natasha betrayed everyone (which then motivated Clint to kill Nat because manpain). Comics are amazing but also infuriating.
no subject
Date: 2019-08-19 02:47 am (UTC)If we're ever threading together, and I do something wildly out of sync with 616 or is otherwise irksome, in any way, PLEASE feel free to tell me! I'm always happy to edit. I think there's always more than one right/interesting way to do anything!
UGGGGGH FRIDGING…! /accept invitation and joins you on soapbox/